Comments on: ★ Total Church Interview in the Briefing http://bathgates.net/2008/05/total-church-interview-in-the-briefing/ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:15:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Shane Rogerson http://bathgates.net/2008/05/total-church-interview-in-the-briefing/#comment-197 Shane Rogerson Thu, 15 May 2008 22:45:50 +0000 http://bathgates.net/2008/05/total-church-interview-in-the-briefing/#comment-197 <p>I think you are right about so called missional models that see the church merely as a means to an end, yet there is also the danger of seeing the church only as the end. Neither seem to do justice to a biblical eschatology that places the people of God as both the heavenly end time gathering as well as God's agent of blessing and gathering the nations through the gospel proclamation. Waht i wonder is how much do we veiw the local gathering of the elect as a sign and foretaste of the coming new creation?</p> I think you are right about so called missional models that see the church merely as a means to an end, yet there is also the danger of seeing the church only as the end. Neither seem to do justice to a biblical eschatology that places the people of God as both the heavenly end time gathering as well as God’s agent of blessing and gathering the nations through the gospel proclamation. Waht i wonder is how much do we veiw the local gathering of the elect as a sign and foretaste of the coming new creation?

]]> By: Ben http://bathgates.net/2008/05/total-church-interview-in-the-briefing/#comment-180 Ben Tue, 13 May 2008 21:41:16 +0000 http://bathgates.net/2008/05/total-church-interview-in-the-briefing/#comment-180 <p>G'day, Shane.</p> <p>Thanks for commenting, mate. It don't doubt that sematics could be a problem in this TC 'conversation', although I'm okay about that. I really appreciate (as I may have mentioned above) that Steve and Tim are keen to engage at the theological level. For me, anyone who proposes a new way of 'doing church' without presenting a clear ecclesiology is not really worth listening too. When it gets to that point, it's all 'buildings, bodies, budgets, big preachers'!</p> <p>I must confess I haven't read TC yet, but I'm very keen to hear what S and T think about the purpose of church. Some of the 'new' missional models seem to treat the church as a means to an end: bringing believers into the kingdom. Whereas I see the church as very much an (eschatological) end in itself. </p> <p>And regarding your PS, I think it's one of the best and worst things about SydAngs! ;)</p> G’day, Shane.

Thanks for commenting, mate. It don’t doubt that sematics could be a problem in this TC ‘conversation’, although I’m okay about that. I really appreciate (as I may have mentioned above) that Steve and Tim are keen to engage at the theological level. For me, anyone who proposes a new way of ‘doing church’ without presenting a clear ecclesiology is not really worth listening too. When it gets to that point, it’s all ‘buildings, bodies, budgets, big preachers’!

I must confess I haven’t read TC yet, but I’m very keen to hear what S and T think about the purpose of church. Some of the ‘new’ missional models seem to treat the church as a means to an end: bringing believers into the kingdom. Whereas I see the church as very much an (eschatological) end in itself.

And regarding your PS, I think it’s one of the best and worst things about SydAngs! ;)

]]> By: Shane Rogerson http://bathgates.net/2008/05/total-church-interview-in-the-briefing/#comment-174 Shane Rogerson Tue, 13 May 2008 15:14:44 +0000 http://bathgates.net/2008/05/total-church-interview-in-the-briefing/#comment-174 <p>Hey Ben good to hear your thoughts. I wonder whether there is a bit of semanitc bungling happening in the whole ecclesia / community thing, but the relationship between Trinity and Church is interesting. Having spent some time with Steve, I noted that he stresses that the community gathers, but the community is so much more than a gathering- it is a whole identity centred shaped and directed in / through the gospel. what is so refreshing about this stuff is that it is a call to live out the dual fidelities of 1. believing and proclaiming the gospel, 2. identifying with, belonging to and living as the people of God. so the gospel community is fundamentally about discipleship and mission, and discipleship and mission are done in the context of community. Church is central to mission because it is both the agent and goal of God's sovereign work in the world. </p> <p>its so 16th century! Living in Christ by faith and in my neighbour through love </p> <p>the other thing that the whole TC paradigm challenges is what really attracts? buildings bodies budgets big preachers - or the powerful word lived out in the lives of God's people? </p> <p>Glad you enjoyed the read ! </p> <p>ps we Sydney Anglicans are a suspicious bunch at times -</p> Hey Ben good to hear your thoughts. I wonder whether there is a bit of semanitc bungling happening in the whole ecclesia / community thing, but the relationship between Trinity and Church is interesting. Having spent some time with Steve, I noted that he stresses that the community gathers, but the community is so much more than a gathering- it is a whole identity centred shaped and directed in / through the gospel. what is so refreshing about this stuff is that it is a call to live out the dual fidelities of 1. believing and proclaiming the gospel, 2. identifying with, belonging to and living as the people of God. so the gospel community is fundamentally about discipleship and mission, and discipleship and mission are done in the context of community. Church is central to mission because it is both the agent and goal of God’s sovereign work in the world.

its so 16th century! Living in Christ by faith and in my neighbour through love

the other thing that the whole TC paradigm challenges is what really attracts? buildings bodies budgets big preachers - or the powerful word lived out in the lives of God’s people?

Glad you enjoyed the read !

ps we Sydney Anglicans are a suspicious bunch at times -

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